Hey! This is issue #9 of the Sheila Heti Summer Slow Read, a five month journey through the novel Motherhood. New episodes drop every Sunday from May-September, 20 issues in total. If you want to start at the beginning or read more about what the hell we’re doing here, head on over to issue #1.
Today’s guest is my friend Jamie (37, mother of one, hot lawyer) and she bears the unique distinction of being one of only two friends I am interviewing for this series who I haven’t actually met in person, lol. May I just say… WE LOVE THE INTERNET 🥹
Jamie and I met in summer 2020, and the story in my head about how we met was actually completely incorrect. I spent 17 years scrolling back in our Instagram DMs only to discover that I DM’d her, apparently thanking her for spilling some very specific bookstagram tea (HAHA), and then she was like, WAIT! You work for one for one of my favorite brands! Jamie sent me a DM voice note (bold) in that very first interaction and IDK, something about the audacity of sending an internet stranger a voice note and hearing her voice, I was like, wait. I love this person. We very quickly discovered we are both #Swifties and love trash reality TV dating shows (and books duh) and the rest is history. Sometimes you can tell you just vibe with someone. That’s us.
When I lost my job in March, the first thing I did after I stopped violently sobbing was a major purge of the 6+ years of jewelry I’d accumulated and never worn, stuffed into several desk drawers to the point of overflowing. It felt wrong to throw it all in the garbage (or sell it I guess?) so I gathered up the best 100ish pieces in their tiny little cocaine plastic bags, dragged my sorry ass to USPS, and sent them all to Jamie. Somehow it made me feel better.
Of all 20 Motherhood excerpts I chose for this series, #9 was by far the most popular with all of my friends. Almost everyone chose this topic as one they wanted to talk about, which I was kind of shocked by at the time, but now I realize after our conversation this actually makes total sense. We all just want to be heard and seen and understood, but life is hard and we fuck up and we apologize and try again. I would argue there is no greater change in friendships and friend groups than when kids enter the chat. How do we find our new normal? How do we nurture our friendships when we barely have any time for ourselves? How can we deal with conflict when it inevitably comes up?
#9. Living one way is not a criticism (page 134)
“Over the next few weeks, I started feeling bad around Nicola, both better than her and ashamed. Why do I think it could matter to Nicola if I don’t have kids? Living one way is not a criticism of every other way of living. Is that the threat of the woman without kids? Yet the woman without kids is not saying that no woman should have kids, or that you – woman with a stroller – have made the wrong choice. Her decision about her life is no statement about yours. One person’s life is not a political or general statement about how all lives should be. Other lives should be able to exist alongside our own without any threat or judgement at all.” –Sheila Heti, Motherhood
Timestamps:
0:00 – The unexpected thoughts Jamie had after her miscarriage (❤️)
1:30 – The difference between “childfree” and “childless”
4:45 – Introducing Jamie and today’s topic, and discussing why this was the topic everyone wanted to talk about
15:20 – Reading today’s prompt
16:55 – My secret fear
19:45 – Why it’s okay not to feel the “burn” of wanting children, whether you end up having them or not
21:20 – How Jamie was the oldest and last person in her friend group to have kids, and how you can’t understand the first 6 weeks of new parenthood unless you’ve been through it
25:30 – The idea of “curating” the people you spend your time around
38:20 – Conflict and communication in close friendships – when your friend does something to offend you, should you talk about it or let it go?
49:10 – The politics of it all
58:00 – Why parents and non-parents are actually in this together ❤️
