Hey! This is issue #3 of the Sheila Heti Summer Slow Read, a five month journey through the novel Motherhood. New episodes drop every Sunday from May-September, 20 issues in total. If you want to start at the beginning or read more about what the hell we’re doing here, head on over to issue #1.
Happy Sunday! We’re back with issue #3 of the Sheila Heti Summer Slow Read, and we’re a legit podcast now??? I heard there were some technical annoyances with the audio embeds in the first two issues, so now you should be able to start, stop, leave the Substack app, etc. etc. but please tell me if you have other technical issues I should investigate. I am reasonably tech literate, as they say, and always happy to fuck around and find out. I also learned how to edit a podcast last week (ha, ha – sorry about that if you listened to the first two – I’m going to go back and edit them at some point I swear) so hey, you’re just experiencing this with me as I go! Thank you for your patience! What a time to be alive! I truly can’t believe how many times I say “like” in regular conversation, it’s embarrassing, somebody please save me from myself.
For today’s issue, I talked to my friend Cass Venzon (28, Taurus, really good at Instagram Stories, doesn’t want kids but loves them). Cass is my former co-worker at cupcakes and cashmere and my only friend who is constantly in a different timezone. In 2019, I recruited her ass on LinkedIn, hired her as an intern, then offered her a full-time job during the pandemic. We held onto our friendship after she left to become a freelance social media manager (you can’t get rid of meeeeeeee!) and I was delighted to have her come talk about all of this!
In this issue, we talked about the repeal of Roe v. Wade, the threat of the “unoccupied” woman, abortion rights, and the fact that people in Cass’ life are already worried her invisible future husband will want kids. (And my thoughts on that 😉)
Um also, it’s Cass’ birthday tomorrow, just FYI. I cut the part of the podcast where I was freaking out over the fact that she’s turning 29 and isn’t in her 30s because she’s an old soul and we feel the same age??? Love you, Cass! ❤️🥹
#3. What sort of trouble will she make? (page 32)
“When I was younger, I told myself that if I was ever going to have a child, it would only happen if I accidentally became pregnant. Well, I did accidentally become pregnant, and I decided not to keep it.
The doctor who examined me advised me to keep the baby. He joked that I should have the baby and give it to him; he said I could come over to his house with bags of milk every week.
Why are we still having children? Why was it important for that doctor that I did? A woman must have children because she must be occupied. When I think of all the people who want to forbid abortions, it seems it can only mean one thing – not that they want this new person in the world, but that they want the woman to be doing the work of child-rearing more than they want her to be doing anything else. There is something threatening about a woman who is not occupied with children. There is something at-loose-ends feeling about such a woman. What is she going to do instead? What sort of trouble will she make?” – Sheila Heti, Motherhood
Here’s our timestamps:
0:30 – Introductions & Cass’ feelings about having kids
2:45 – Reading today’s prompt
6:00 – What are people so afraid of when women don’t have children?
9:00 – The threat of the “unoccupied” woman
17:00 – The stories we tell ourselves as children, and Cass’ experience going to high school and college in the Philippines, where abortion is illegal
23:30 – Minnesota’s vigilante shit 😎 (and also what it’s like just outside the Twin Cities where I grew up)
29:30 – The repeal of Roe v. Wade and our decreasing capacity for empathy
36:30 – Our experiences with doctors
41:00 – Unsolicited advice, thoughts, and opinions from people who don’t understand the choice not to have kids (but what if Cass’ imaginary future husband wants kids?!?!?)
