Really related to all of this. It's always seemed so... odd to me that something can be not for you and depending on what that thing is, that somehow means you hate it? There's a lot of things in life that aren't for me - sure, kids are definitely higher ranking on the social and cultural expectations chart - but that doesn't mean that I hate any of them. And a lack of experience doing something also doesn't mean I hate it. Lots of people don't know how to hold a baby - being a woman doesn't mean I was born knowing how to do this. I had to learn how to do basically everything in life and some of them I feel comfortable doing and others I don't no matter how many times I've done it.
Right, isn’t that funny? I think most people don’t assume that men are born knowing how to do things related to babies and children, but women often are, at least in my (limited) experience
Timely post! A good friend had a baby on Aug 3. Unfortunately her mom has stage 4 cancer and was back in the hospital. We knew she didn’t have much time left and I helped her arrange a visit so that Grandma could meet the baby. We were so focused on that - but near the end of the visit new mom said ‘oh Sarah I can’t believe I almost forgot you haven’t held him yet!’ Ohhhhh shoot I almost got out of that one. I did hold him and it was sweet but yes I was terrified of dropping him or his neck flailing away or some other terrible thing. If you saw the picture of me holding him my smile is mostly - ‘he’s not crying!!!’ lol I’m so happy for people who get to have the babies they want. For me it’s most awkward with friends that can’t have babies and here’s me not wanting but likely could have had the thing they most want in the world.
I will say getting older definitely softens the edges around the issue. Now that I’m in my late 40s, the kid question is more like ‘out of the question’. Lots of friends kids are graduating and getting out of the house and they are starting to live a life not revolving around their children, or they have bratty teenagers and admit they love their kids but like their dogs a whole lot more right now.
Joe and I have such a varied friend group now partly because we didn’t have kids. Our friend groups aren’t defined by kids schools and sports. We have friends of all ages and family situations.
It was definitely most hard in my 20s and 30s but I wouldn’t have changed anything. Thank you Kelly for bringing forward this topic in a lighthearted and honest conversation. You are definitely not alone in all the feels!!!
You’re so right Sarah! I haven’t experienced any friends yet who wanted to have kids but couldn’t have them. I am sure I will eventually and I can almost guarantee you I will probably feel some pangs of guilt. Thank you so much for sharing ❤️
I wholeheartedly relate to this, Kelly! And lol, in terms of that, the first time I held a baby was my bridesmaid's 8-week old the night before my wedding. I was 27 -- also a youngest child -- and had no idea that you're still meant to support their head. It was beautiful and terrifying. I still haven't held a newborn -- I'm now 35.
I worked in high schools for four years and this has been part of the tipping point towards seriously thinking that I probably won't be a parent. The thing is though, my experience has been that it's an extraordinary thing for kids and young people to trust you and to feel safe with you. There are so many young people who don't experience this at all and, for us to have communities in the truest sense of the world, young people need loved ones outside their parents who have their best interests at heart, too.
Just because myself and my husband don't necessarily want to be parents doesn't mean that we don't want to devote a huge part of our life to being positive caregivers. I adore kids, I just don't think that I want to express care through them being my own and through the role of being a parent. It would be insincere and unfair to a child. It doesn't mean that I don't have overwhelming joy for this being a choice for people in my life. It also has nothing to do with love or capacity for love.
The last thing I think about quite a bit is that people do report having preferences for what age they like best to be around kids. My mum is one of 8 and she said her mother liked best when kids were babies. She said, "She liked the simplicity of it and not having as much to deal with". Whereas my mum said that she liked best when kids were around 3 and older because they had more personality and she could interact with them more. I love being around older kids and getting to just let them be their own person. I just don't think there's a right way in any of this and I think we need to normalise that no-one's perfect in anything they're choosing. I wonder a lot about cultures that are constantly telling us that there's a "right" way to do all of this. Is it part of what makes this such a spicy topic? Is it another form of social competition? Is it another way that we get pitted against one another? So many thoughts.
I love this, thank you! And I totally agree–kids are so fun for me to be around once they're around 8 or older. I have so much fun with their curiosity and playfulness around that age, when I don't have to be constantly worried if they're going to get hurt, haha. Some of the chaos is tempered by then, too, which I'll totally admit is tough for me.
I agree–I don't think there's a right way in any of this! We're all just kind of making this up as we go along!
Despite being a mom myself, I actually deeply relate to this. I'm the youngest in my family too, and I never really had those "maternal" instincts it seemed like every other woman has. When I was a kid, I remember my friends all loved babies and would fawn over them, but I always felt so awkward. Even though I'd been around babies, I just never felt super comfortable around other people's kids, despite always figuring I'd have them myself one day. Once I got married, I became less and less sure having kids was the right path for me, for all those reasons and more. How would I be with my own kids when I really didn't have any desire to be around anyone else's kids at all? Fast forward: I have two little girls, love being a mom, and honestly I still feel awkward around other people's kids sometimes! I think there is so much judgement around parenting that it can make you feel self-conscious about everything you do regarding someone else's child, even when you feel like you're doing a solid job with your own. Also–I think you don't have to love kids to want to be a mom. I love MY kids, but there is no amount of money in the world that would make me want to work at a daycare full of strangers' kids, lol.
I’m loving this new direction with the Opt Out. I am actually currently pregnant (and put a lot of intentionality into arriving at this pregnancy!). But motherhood was not always a given for me. I’m really enjoying your musings on the societal expectations around womanhood and shedding guilt/shame for our choices.
I don't have a ton to add, but holy moly, you are in my brain. I've had the same internal dialogue around small children countless times.
Really related to all of this. It's always seemed so... odd to me that something can be not for you and depending on what that thing is, that somehow means you hate it? There's a lot of things in life that aren't for me - sure, kids are definitely higher ranking on the social and cultural expectations chart - but that doesn't mean that I hate any of them. And a lack of experience doing something also doesn't mean I hate it. Lots of people don't know how to hold a baby - being a woman doesn't mean I was born knowing how to do this. I had to learn how to do basically everything in life and some of them I feel comfortable doing and others I don't no matter how many times I've done it.
Right, isn’t that funny? I think most people don’t assume that men are born knowing how to do things related to babies and children, but women often are, at least in my (limited) experience
Timely post! A good friend had a baby on Aug 3. Unfortunately her mom has stage 4 cancer and was back in the hospital. We knew she didn’t have much time left and I helped her arrange a visit so that Grandma could meet the baby. We were so focused on that - but near the end of the visit new mom said ‘oh Sarah I can’t believe I almost forgot you haven’t held him yet!’ Ohhhhh shoot I almost got out of that one. I did hold him and it was sweet but yes I was terrified of dropping him or his neck flailing away or some other terrible thing. If you saw the picture of me holding him my smile is mostly - ‘he’s not crying!!!’ lol I’m so happy for people who get to have the babies they want. For me it’s most awkward with friends that can’t have babies and here’s me not wanting but likely could have had the thing they most want in the world.
I will say getting older definitely softens the edges around the issue. Now that I’m in my late 40s, the kid question is more like ‘out of the question’. Lots of friends kids are graduating and getting out of the house and they are starting to live a life not revolving around their children, or they have bratty teenagers and admit they love their kids but like their dogs a whole lot more right now.
Joe and I have such a varied friend group now partly because we didn’t have kids. Our friend groups aren’t defined by kids schools and sports. We have friends of all ages and family situations.
It was definitely most hard in my 20s and 30s but I wouldn’t have changed anything. Thank you Kelly for bringing forward this topic in a lighthearted and honest conversation. You are definitely not alone in all the feels!!!
You’re so right Sarah! I haven’t experienced any friends yet who wanted to have kids but couldn’t have them. I am sure I will eventually and I can almost guarantee you I will probably feel some pangs of guilt. Thank you so much for sharing ❤️
I wholeheartedly relate to this, Kelly! And lol, in terms of that, the first time I held a baby was my bridesmaid's 8-week old the night before my wedding. I was 27 -- also a youngest child -- and had no idea that you're still meant to support their head. It was beautiful and terrifying. I still haven't held a newborn -- I'm now 35.
I worked in high schools for four years and this has been part of the tipping point towards seriously thinking that I probably won't be a parent. The thing is though, my experience has been that it's an extraordinary thing for kids and young people to trust you and to feel safe with you. There are so many young people who don't experience this at all and, for us to have communities in the truest sense of the world, young people need loved ones outside their parents who have their best interests at heart, too.
Just because myself and my husband don't necessarily want to be parents doesn't mean that we don't want to devote a huge part of our life to being positive caregivers. I adore kids, I just don't think that I want to express care through them being my own and through the role of being a parent. It would be insincere and unfair to a child. It doesn't mean that I don't have overwhelming joy for this being a choice for people in my life. It also has nothing to do with love or capacity for love.
The last thing I think about quite a bit is that people do report having preferences for what age they like best to be around kids. My mum is one of 8 and she said her mother liked best when kids were babies. She said, "She liked the simplicity of it and not having as much to deal with". Whereas my mum said that she liked best when kids were around 3 and older because they had more personality and she could interact with them more. I love being around older kids and getting to just let them be their own person. I just don't think there's a right way in any of this and I think we need to normalise that no-one's perfect in anything they're choosing. I wonder a lot about cultures that are constantly telling us that there's a "right" way to do all of this. Is it part of what makes this such a spicy topic? Is it another form of social competition? Is it another way that we get pitted against one another? So many thoughts.
I love this, thank you! And I totally agree–kids are so fun for me to be around once they're around 8 or older. I have so much fun with their curiosity and playfulness around that age, when I don't have to be constantly worried if they're going to get hurt, haha. Some of the chaos is tempered by then, too, which I'll totally admit is tough for me.
I agree–I don't think there's a right way in any of this! We're all just kind of making this up as we go along!
thanks for the shout-out, Kelly!!
Loved your episode!!! ❤️
Despite being a mom myself, I actually deeply relate to this. I'm the youngest in my family too, and I never really had those "maternal" instincts it seemed like every other woman has. When I was a kid, I remember my friends all loved babies and would fawn over them, but I always felt so awkward. Even though I'd been around babies, I just never felt super comfortable around other people's kids, despite always figuring I'd have them myself one day. Once I got married, I became less and less sure having kids was the right path for me, for all those reasons and more. How would I be with my own kids when I really didn't have any desire to be around anyone else's kids at all? Fast forward: I have two little girls, love being a mom, and honestly I still feel awkward around other people's kids sometimes! I think there is so much judgement around parenting that it can make you feel self-conscious about everything you do regarding someone else's child, even when you feel like you're doing a solid job with your own. Also–I think you don't have to love kids to want to be a mom. I love MY kids, but there is no amount of money in the world that would make me want to work at a daycare full of strangers' kids, lol.
I’m loving this new direction with the Opt Out. I am actually currently pregnant (and put a lot of intentionality into arriving at this pregnancy!). But motherhood was not always a given for me. I’m really enjoying your musings on the societal expectations around womanhood and shedding guilt/shame for our choices.