#2. Ask not whether the boxes are ticked
Leslie Stephens in the house!! (Literally who else would I talk to about this particular topic?????)
Happy Sunday y’all, and welcome to issue #2 of the Sheila Heti Summer Slow Read! (If you missed issue #1, start there for an explanation of what exactly we’re doing here!) I know it’s technically ~spring~ but it’s 84˚ as I type this (bliss) and summer is really more of a state of mind than an actual season these days, you know what I mean?
For today’s issue, I talked to my friend
, author of the wildly popular newsletter, , and the near-future tech thriller, You’re Safe Here! I met Leslie (33, hasn’t decided whether she wants kids) when we both worked at cupcakes and cashmere from 2018-2021. Besides being an incredible conversationalist (seriously, Leslie and I could talk for 500 hours and not be tired and we may be secretly thinking about starting a podcast someday), she’s currently finishing school to become a therapist, so Leslie’s thoughts and advice on this topic are particularly compelling!In this issue, we talk about feeling pressure to tick off the boxes in a certain order, how to find your values, perpetual FOMO, living honestly, finding peace in ambiguity, and that time we both intentionally blew up our lives. 👯♀️✌🏻
#2. Ask not whether the boxes are ticked (page 28)
“After the appointment, I walked in the streets and called Teresa. I brought up my worries over paths not taken, and she said everyone had those, but often when you looked back on your life, you saw the choices you made and the paths you went down were the right ones. She said it wasn’t a matter of choosing one life over another, but being sensitive to the life that wants to be lived through you. You need tension in order to create something – the sand in the pearl. She said my questioning and doubts were the sand. She said they were good and forced me to live with integrity, to interrogate what was important to me, and so to live the meaning of my life, rather than resort to convention.
Then to try and discover and live my values, even if it may not seem like I’m moving forward in my life, while my friends appear to be moving forward in theirs – ticking off all the boxes. Ask only whether you are living your values, not whether the boxes are ticked.” – Sheila Heti, Motherhood
Eek! This is such a good one. Here’s a few timestamps in case you’re interested:
1:10 – Introductions
1:40 – Leslie’s personal thoughts on having kids
5:30 – Reading prompt #2
8:05 – Perpetual FOMO and which life wants to be lived through you
11:25 – Resorting to convention and what our friends are doing
15:10 – Leslie’s divorce, calling off my wedding, and straying from the path
21:50 – The pursuit of living honestly
28:10 – How to find your values
36:25 – What society tells you vs. controlling your own checklist
38:35 – How Should A Person Be and finding what resonates with you
40:00 – Fangirling about how much we love books (not sorry) ❤️
Let’s get to it! Here’s our conversation: